Donald Trump has described attacks on police officers at the US Capitol on January 6 2021 as “very minor incidents” as he sought to defend his decision to pardon the insurrectionists.
The US president hinted that those who put him through “four years of hell” via criminal prosecutions should themselves be investigated, adding ominously that his predecessor Joe Biden made a mistake by not pardoning himself.
Trump was giving the first televised interview of his second term to Sean Hannity, a longtime friend and Fox News host, in the Oval Office at the White House on Wednesday.
Related: Leading Republicans wrongfooted by Trump’s sweeping January 6 pardons
Among the topics was Trump’s move on Monday to pardon, commute the prison sentences or dismiss the cases of all of the 1,500-plus people charged with crimes in the effort to overturn his 2020 election defeat. Hannity asked why people who were violent towards police were included.
Trump claimed that they had suffered unduly harsh prison conditions then falsely claimed that the 2020 election was stolen despite courts, officials and his own attorney general finding otherwise. “They were protesting the vote because they knew the election was rigged and they were protesting the vote and you should be allowed to protest the vote,” he said.
Often criticised as a Trump sycophant and propagandist, Hannity nevertheless objected that protesters should not be able to invade the Capitol building.
The president responded: “Most of the people were absolutely innocent. OK. But forgetting all about that, these people have served, horribly, a long time. It would be very, very cumbersome to go and look – you know how many people we’re talking about? 1,500 people.”
Vice-president JD Vance has previously stated that those who committed violence on January 6 “obviously” should not receive pardons. But media accounts suggest that Trump lost patience with the idea of going through the cases individually and wanted maximum impact on his first day in office. The Axios website reported: “Trump just said: ‘F–k it: Release ’em all,’” an adviser familiar with the discussions said.”
Those pardoned include more than 250 people who were convicted of assault charges, some having attacked police with makeshift weapons such as flagpoles, a hockey stick and a crutch. Many of the attacks were captured on surveillance or body camera footage that showed rioters engaging in hand-to-hand combat with police as officers desperately fought to beat back the angry crowd.
Yet in his interview with Hannity, Trump claimed: “Some of those people with the police – true – but they were very minor incidents, OK, you know, they get built up by that couple of fake guys that are on CNN all the time. They were very minor incidents and it was time.”
He then pivoted without providing context to assert: “You have murderers in Philadelphia. You have murderers in Los Angeles that don’t even get any time. They don’t even collect them and they know they’re there to be collected. And then they go on television and act holier than thou about this one or that one. You had 1,500 people that suffered. That’s a lot of people.”
Trump’s sweeping pardons have provided an early loyalty test for the Republican party. While a handful of senators including former leader Mitch McConnell have condemned the move, most have backed the president or performed verbal contortions. Two major police unions said they are “deeply discouraged” by the pardons and commutations.
On Wednesday night the president went on: “This was a political hoax. And you know what? Those people – and I’m not saying in every single case – but there was a lot of patriotism with those people.”
Trump then boasted that he provided a voiceover for “Justice for All”, a version of the Star-Spangled Banner sung by a group of January 6 defendants over a prison phone line. “It was the number one selling song, number one on Billboard, number one on everything for so long. People get it. They wanted to see those people.”
Hannity tried to move on to questions about the economy but Trump was not done. He criticised Biden for issuing, in his final hours as president, a flurry of preemptive pardons to Gen Mark Milley, Dr Anthony Fauci and members of Congress who served on the committee investigating the January 6 attack.
Hannity asked if Congress or the attorney general should investigate. Trump, who has long vowed retribution against his political enemies, replied: “You know, I was always against that with presidents and Hillary Clinton. I could have had Hillary Clinton – a big number done on her.”
The host interjected: “Have you changed your mind?”
Trump, who faced multiple criminal cases and was convicted in one of them, said: “Well, I went through four years of hell by this scum that we had to deal with. I went through four years of hell. I spent millions of dollars in legal fees, And I won. But I did it the hard way. It’s really hard to say that they shouldn’t have to go through it all.”
Biden had received bad advice, Trump added darkly. “Joe Biden has very bad advisers. Somebody advised Joe Biden to give pardons to everybody but him … Joe Biden had very bad advice.”
Trump also used the prime-time interview to discuss his barrage of executive orders, dismiss security concerns over Chinese-owned app TikTok (“Is it that important for China to be spying on young people, on young kids watching crazy videos?”) and discuss the possibility of cutting off federal funds to so-called “sanctuary cities” that shield undocumented immigrants from federal detention requests.
The president also floated the idea of ending federal disaster relief and leaving states to fend for themselves during emergencies. With Los Angeles scorched by wildfires and the eastern US still recovering from two devastating hurricanes, Trump falsely accused the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) of turning its back on victims.
“Fema has not done their job for the last four years. You know, I had Fema working really well. We had hurricanes in Florida, we had Alabama tornadoes. But unless you have certain types of leadership, it gets in the way. And Fema is going to be a whole big discussion very shortly, because I’d rather see the states take care of their own problems.”
Trump is set to make his first presidential trip on Friday to view storm damage in North Carolina after last year’s Hurricane Helene, and then on to Los Angeles to view the response to ongoing wildfires.
